Conversations about money are not usually this captivating, but it’s impossible not to be entertained by the quippy banter and engaging infographics in Berna Anat’s Money Out Loud: All the Financial Stuff No One Taught Us (Quill Tree Books/Harper Collins, April 25). In this informational guide for young adults, the financial educator writes about saving, budgeting, and investing, and while none of the topics are new (Anat says so herself), the book speaks to an audience frequently excluded from this kind of information. Anat’s book feels especially timely and nuanced, as she dedicates sections to investing in ethical companies, how to get a bank account if you’re undocumented, and how systemic racism has stymied Black wealth in America. I recently sat down with Anat for a phone conversation, and we discussed the importance of young people managing their money in today’s uncertain world and the one thing she hopes readers will take away from the book. Our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Why is it so crucial for young people to learn about money?

It’s incredibly crucial for young people to know about money because, like the rest of us, they were born into a capitalistic system that they didn’t choose. Because of capitalism, money is power. Money is how we access safety, security, and health—for better or for worse. A person who has control over their money has a lot of autonomy in our world. That’s something I didn’t learn until I was much older, and I think it’s crucial for young people to learn this as soon as possible because then they’re better equipped to navigate the world as it truly is.

When you first started your financial journey, you took to social media to document your journey of saving and paying off debt. What were the scariest and most rewarding parts of sharing your finances?

It was scary to share the fact that I had $12,000 in credit card debt and almost $40,000 in student loans. It was scary because I was taught to be scared of my finances. But then the fear of that quickly turned into gratitude and relief because so many other people felt the same way and were relieved that someone else raised their hand first. The absolute most rewarding thing was having other people go, You know what, since you’re doing it, I’m going to do it, too. Shame makes isolation worse. When we feel shame, we feel isolated and then we don’t ask questions, and we don’t learn. It’s really gratifying to feel like I’m unlocking this piece of freedom for other folks.

One of the things that I appreciate about your book is that you include a lot of prompts for young people to talk about money with their parents, which is especially hard for kids of first-generation immigrants. You also write about your Filipino family and how their habits shaped your relationship with money early on. How has your financial journey and writing this book transformed your relationship with your parents?

I’ve been very careful about showing how I’ve learned something, and then I try to invite them into the learning process so that it doesn’t feel like I’m turning around and wagging my finger—because that just would not jive in a lot of BIPOC families. It’s like I step ahead a little bit and then invite them into what I’m learning so that it never comes from this place of, like, I did it and so should you, or a place of blame or guilt. My parents have their own relationship with money too, and I need to be conscious of that.

So much of financial planning is making sacrifices today and planning for our future selves. With climate change, unaffordable housing, and inflation looming over us, there’s a temptation for young people to throw their hands up and just say YOLO when it comes to money. How do we approach financial education in today’s unpredictable environment? 

So many of us, no matter what generation we’re in, all we know is survival. All we know is barely making it—keeping our heads down, working, and just grinding away in our corner of the world without even thinking of what else is possible. It’s really easy to get down and look at the world as it is. But we cannot think of new systems, new dreams, and new ideas while we’re still stuck in survival mode. And that includes financial survival mode. The dream is to get out of the “surviving paycheck to paycheck” mentality and to care for our future selves so that we can go from panic and doggy paddling to head above water. But we can’t get to that level of dreaming without a basic level of financial self-care. I’m trying to get our heads above water.

In the book, you talk a lot about having “good money friends”: those around you with the same financial goals. Did you have good money friends when you started out?

My friends and I were all on the same level of financial confusion, but we weren’t talking about it. We were all in our own little cones of shame and silence about money, trying to do our thing. I grew up thinking you’re not supposed to talk about money with your friends or peers. And so in my own financial journey, sharing my financial education, I took my cone of silence off. I started to share my journey, and I found that the friends and family members that I have became good money friends. Since I’ve been sharing my financial journey and sharing how I became debt free, it’s only brought my current friends closer, and it’s brought new friends—I now have a network of other financial educators I’m learning from.

What would you tell your younger self about money and finances?

When you ask that question, I think about my 13-year-old self, specifically. I would encourage my 13-year-old self to breathe a little bit. There are things you won’t always be able to control. You should still think about being a kid and being young and having fun. And I also want you to think about money as a tool that you can use, not the thing that you hope to get close to you if you’re a very good student or a good worker. Money is something that, even in small amounts, you can organize to work for your life. It’s possible to get the life that you want with money, and it’s possible if you learn good money habits. I would want my 13-year-old self to understand money as a very basic tool to get what you want and not this far-off, distant thing that I’m going to hopefully have.

What’s one thing you want readers to take away from this book?

I really hope that this book is a book full of moments of people feeling seen and their financial issues being reflected back to them. I hope that this book is like a disco ball with reflective surfaces all over where people can see themselves and just feel included in the conversation about money, maybe for the first time. Maybe this is the first book that they read that makes them feel included in the money world, and then they go on to read a ton of other books because they finally feel comfortable enough to get in the conversation. That will be “mission accomplished” for me.

Mariette Williams is a South Florida–based writer with bylines in Travel + Leisure, Teen Vogue, Cosmopolitan, and Essence.